Interview with Edie Doubtfire (nee Smith) - 12 May 1973
Interview with Edie Doubtfire (nee Smith), Saturday Afternoon 12 May 1973
At Greenglades, The Esplanade, Henley Beach
The interview was tape recorded and the following is a written copy of the tape. Those present were Doreen Palmer of Glengowrie and Graham Smith of Morphett Vale. The persons asking and answering the questions are signified as follows:-
E - Edie
D - Doreen
G - Graham
G. Can you remember a Lord Burghley visiting Australia?
E. No.
G. Which girl was it who looked after your grandmother? [Grandmother is Lucy Dore].
E. Nell Smith. [Her name was Ellen Smith (1881-1951) and she was the eldest child of William and Laura Dyer.] That was a daughter of Bill Smith the youngest brother of Dads. [Correct. His name was William Smith (1859-1950)]. He died. That's the one Dad wanted to cover over to Australia.
[A little on Nell Smith.
In 1901 Census, aged 20, one year after Lucy Dore died she is a Domestic Servant in Reading.
In 1911 Census, aged 30, she is a Domestic Servant in Speen, Berkshire.
She married Arthur Alderman and they had two children Albert Arthur Alderman and Laura Mabel Alderman.]
G. She wouldn't come?
E. No.
G. Wasn't that Albert's daughter?
E. No. His name was Bill I think. [Correct. William Smith].
G. Do you remember what Ern's second wife's name was?
E. Gertie. She's at the Church of Christ home.
G. Horrie said she was the one who destroyed the family papers.
E. She never even came to the funeral. She killed Ern. [Obviously untrue].
G. Is she alive today?
E. As far as I know she is in the Church of Christ home on the bay tram line.
G. Did she have any children?
E. Not by Ern.
INFORMATION IS THEN SUPPLIED OF NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF ERN'S CHILDREN. STOP IN TAPE.
E. Joseph's grandfather Burghley's wife died and he adopted his children to a woman called Smith and father went under the name Smith.
G. Where did Annie die?
E. We don't know. She was in Glenside for a while and then she went to Mile End. The next thing I heard was what Horrie told me; that was that she cleared out with 36,000 pounds. [Annie died in Glenside Hospital penniless].
G. Would she be alive today?
E. No. She would be as old as Charlie.
G. Horrie said she would be 88.
E. That's right. I heard she had gone to England and taken all the cash with her.
G. Where did she get all that money from. Was it a Burghley or a Rowlinson side?
E. She got it from the Burghleys. He wanted Dad to take the house and he promised his father he wouldn't touch their money. He should have had that money. The money was supposed to be for him.
G. There is supposed then to be two lots of money in Chancery. One on the Burghley side and one on the Rowlinson side. We know there is definitely money on the Rowlinson side.
E. No. That was on the Burghley side. The other one was no relation to her (Annie). She went under the name of Marjorie Burghley Smith. [Close. Annie changed her name to Marjorie Burghlea Smith].
G. She changed her name didn't she?
E. Yes. But Dad [Joseph Smith] liked Nell [Ellen Smith] because she looked after his mother. His (Joseph's) father died when he was only 36 and mum's father died when he was 86.
G. Who were Mr and Mrs Baker? (G. Describes how he found their names).
G. Your mother came from Aberdeen.
E. No. She came from Edinburgh. [Incorrect. She came from Pampisford, Cambridgeshire].
(G. Tells the story of the Baker family befriending Eliza.)
G. Do you remember this?
E. No.
G. Horrie said later on the Bakers came to Australia and they lived in Clifton Street at Hyde Park.
E. Oh yes, we used to visit them. I didn't know they were some relation.
G. How old was Eliza when she died?
E. Only 44. She died of blood poisoning.
G. At the birth of William Rufus?
E. Yes. That was out at Leicester Street.
G. Can you remember the place at Clifton Terrace at Hyde Park?
E. Yes. I remember the little old place right down the end, it's probably down now. It was two or three doors from the end.
G. The name of the people was Baker?
E. Yes.
G. But you didn't know how they were tied up with the family?
E. No. Ern worked for a Baker too.
G. Can you recall the family talking about any place in England?
E. No. Only Ern used to talk.
G. Have you heard of Burghfield Common near Reading?
E. That's where Dad used to live isn't it?
G. Can you remember them talking about any towns?
E. No. They never used to talk about things in England much.
G. What relative was it that built the front fence at Leicester Street.
E. I couldn't tell you.
G. Do you remember Sellick's Hill and Sellick's Beach.
E. Yes. I went there.
G. How long before Joseph did Henry arrive in South Australia?
NO CERTAIN ANSWER
G. How long did your parents live with Henry at Sellicks?
E. Not long.
G. Was Henry called Harry?
E. Mainly Harry.
G. Do you know which boat your parents came out on?
E. No.
G. The Hodgens were on the same boat.
E. That's right. The Reverend Hodgens used to visit us.
G. Do you know anyone else that has delved into the family background?
E. Only Ern but he didn't find out much.
G. Do you remember Henry's wife's maiden name?
E. Susie something.
G. Was it Susie Love?
E. That's right.
G. Did Henry's wife come out on the same boat as your parents?
E. No They were married in England before they came out.
G. Interesting.
G. How much older was Henry compared with your father?
E. Maybe three or four years.
G. A couple of Henry's daughters married Wickham's didn't they?
E. Yes.
G. Who was the Reverend Joseph Burghley?
(G. EXPLAINS THE GODFATHER BIT STATED BY HORACE)
(E. AGREES IT COULD HAVE BEEN JOSEPH'S GODFATHER)
E. I don't remember.
G. Do you remember the Reverend Erskine?
E. I've heard the name.
G. Do you remember your mother speaking of her side of the family?
E. I was only 6 1/2 when she died. No.
G. When did Lucy die?
E. 1948.
G. Can you remember anything about a Pantrymaid, a Kitchenmaid or a Parlourmaid?
E. No.
G. Is there a family Bible?
E. It went down the sons of Ern. There is nothing at all in that Bible.
G. Joseph's father was Robert.
E. Yes. Bob was named after him.
G. Do you know who Robert's wife was?
E. No.
G. I believe her names was Dore. [Correct. Her name was Lucy Dore.]
E. Yes.
G. The information I have is that she may have been a French Jewess.
E. Yes. They say she was.
G. Are you sure Eliza's family came from Edinburgh.
E. I understand she was cook at the Edinburgh school. [No evidence found.]
G. Where do you think this Lord Burghley fits in then. Was he Robert's father?
E. I don't know what Robert's father's name was.
G. Do you remember any letters coming to the family from England?
E. Only from Annie.
G. Annie's father was Albert, is that right?
E. I don't know. He (the father) had a son called Albert I know. [William had a son called Herbert?]
G. In other words, Annie's brother was called Albert.
E. He might have been too. I thought it was Bill. [Correct. Annie's father was William aka Bill].
(VERY CONFUSING, NOT CLEAR).
G. Who was born at Sellicks?
E. Only Lucy.
G. Lord Burghley. Any comments?
E. I know he had a second family. I don't know how many children.
G. Did Robert marry only once, or twice?
E. Only the once. [Correct. To Lucy Dore.]
G. About what year did Annie make her claim? [No evidence to support this claim.]
E. We don't know. Horrie heard - he told us.
G. Annie went a bit silly later in life.
E. Yes. When she came over here, she just dwelt on Dad. She never worked much at all.
G. Have you ever heard of a Manor House in England?
E. No.
G. Do you remember where the graves are in West Terrace Cemetery?
E. No. Not really. I believe they built on Mum's grave.
G. Your father (Joseph) died after he came home from his evening walk.
E. Yes. He had been over to Besses and he had said it was cold. We had been to see a wedding. He was a bit worn out. He had had a bit of a cold before. Anyway, when he got home, he wound the clock up, went to the toilet, came back, sat on the side of the bed and fell dead to the floor. [Joseph Smith died in Leicester Street, Parkside in 1934].
G. You used to live in Leicester Street.
E. Yes. Number 153 down the end,
END.
At Greenglades, The Esplanade, Henley Beach
The interview was tape recorded and the following is a written copy of the tape. Those present were Doreen Palmer of Glengowrie and Graham Smith of Morphett Vale. The persons asking and answering the questions are signified as follows:-
E - Edie
D - Doreen
G - Graham
G. Can you remember a Lord Burghley visiting Australia?
E. No.
G. Which girl was it who looked after your grandmother? [Grandmother is Lucy Dore].
E. Nell Smith. [Her name was Ellen Smith (1881-1951) and she was the eldest child of William and Laura Dyer.] That was a daughter of Bill Smith the youngest brother of Dads. [Correct. His name was William Smith (1859-1950)]. He died. That's the one Dad wanted to cover over to Australia.
[A little on Nell Smith.
In 1901 Census, aged 20, one year after Lucy Dore died she is a Domestic Servant in Reading.
In 1911 Census, aged 30, she is a Domestic Servant in Speen, Berkshire.
She married Arthur Alderman and they had two children Albert Arthur Alderman and Laura Mabel Alderman.]
G. She wouldn't come?
E. No.
G. Wasn't that Albert's daughter?
E. No. His name was Bill I think. [Correct. William Smith].
G. Do you remember what Ern's second wife's name was?
E. Gertie. She's at the Church of Christ home.
G. Horrie said she was the one who destroyed the family papers.
E. She never even came to the funeral. She killed Ern. [Obviously untrue].
G. Is she alive today?
E. As far as I know she is in the Church of Christ home on the bay tram line.
G. Did she have any children?
E. Not by Ern.
INFORMATION IS THEN SUPPLIED OF NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF ERN'S CHILDREN. STOP IN TAPE.
E. Joseph's grandfather Burghley's wife died and he adopted his children to a woman called Smith and father went under the name Smith.
G. Where did Annie die?
E. We don't know. She was in Glenside for a while and then she went to Mile End. The next thing I heard was what Horrie told me; that was that she cleared out with 36,000 pounds. [Annie died in Glenside Hospital penniless].
G. Would she be alive today?
E. No. She would be as old as Charlie.
G. Horrie said she would be 88.
E. That's right. I heard she had gone to England and taken all the cash with her.
G. Where did she get all that money from. Was it a Burghley or a Rowlinson side?
E. She got it from the Burghleys. He wanted Dad to take the house and he promised his father he wouldn't touch their money. He should have had that money. The money was supposed to be for him.
G. There is supposed then to be two lots of money in Chancery. One on the Burghley side and one on the Rowlinson side. We know there is definitely money on the Rowlinson side.
E. No. That was on the Burghley side. The other one was no relation to her (Annie). She went under the name of Marjorie Burghley Smith. [Close. Annie changed her name to Marjorie Burghlea Smith].
G. She changed her name didn't she?
E. Yes. But Dad [Joseph Smith] liked Nell [Ellen Smith] because she looked after his mother. His (Joseph's) father died when he was only 36 and mum's father died when he was 86.
G. Who were Mr and Mrs Baker? (G. Describes how he found their names).
G. Your mother came from Aberdeen.
E. No. She came from Edinburgh. [Incorrect. She came from Pampisford, Cambridgeshire].
(G. Tells the story of the Baker family befriending Eliza.)
G. Do you remember this?
E. No.
G. Horrie said later on the Bakers came to Australia and they lived in Clifton Street at Hyde Park.
E. Oh yes, we used to visit them. I didn't know they were some relation.
G. How old was Eliza when she died?
E. Only 44. She died of blood poisoning.
G. At the birth of William Rufus?
E. Yes. That was out at Leicester Street.
G. Can you remember the place at Clifton Terrace at Hyde Park?
E. Yes. I remember the little old place right down the end, it's probably down now. It was two or three doors from the end.
G. The name of the people was Baker?
E. Yes.
G. But you didn't know how they were tied up with the family?
E. No. Ern worked for a Baker too.
G. Can you recall the family talking about any place in England?
E. No. Only Ern used to talk.
G. Have you heard of Burghfield Common near Reading?
E. That's where Dad used to live isn't it?
G. Can you remember them talking about any towns?
E. No. They never used to talk about things in England much.
G. What relative was it that built the front fence at Leicester Street.
E. I couldn't tell you.
G. Do you remember Sellick's Hill and Sellick's Beach.
E. Yes. I went there.
G. How long before Joseph did Henry arrive in South Australia?
NO CERTAIN ANSWER
G. How long did your parents live with Henry at Sellicks?
E. Not long.
G. Was Henry called Harry?
E. Mainly Harry.
G. Do you know which boat your parents came out on?
E. No.
G. The Hodgens were on the same boat.
E. That's right. The Reverend Hodgens used to visit us.
G. Do you know anyone else that has delved into the family background?
E. Only Ern but he didn't find out much.
G. Do you remember Henry's wife's maiden name?
E. Susie something.
G. Was it Susie Love?
E. That's right.
G. Did Henry's wife come out on the same boat as your parents?
E. No They were married in England before they came out.
G. Interesting.
G. How much older was Henry compared with your father?
E. Maybe three or four years.
G. A couple of Henry's daughters married Wickham's didn't they?
E. Yes.
G. Who was the Reverend Joseph Burghley?
(G. EXPLAINS THE GODFATHER BIT STATED BY HORACE)
(E. AGREES IT COULD HAVE BEEN JOSEPH'S GODFATHER)
E. I don't remember.
G. Do you remember the Reverend Erskine?
E. I've heard the name.
G. Do you remember your mother speaking of her side of the family?
E. I was only 6 1/2 when she died. No.
G. When did Lucy die?
E. 1948.
G. Can you remember anything about a Pantrymaid, a Kitchenmaid or a Parlourmaid?
E. No.
G. Is there a family Bible?
E. It went down the sons of Ern. There is nothing at all in that Bible.
G. Joseph's father was Robert.
E. Yes. Bob was named after him.
G. Do you know who Robert's wife was?
E. No.
G. I believe her names was Dore. [Correct. Her name was Lucy Dore.]
E. Yes.
G. The information I have is that she may have been a French Jewess.
E. Yes. They say she was.
G. Are you sure Eliza's family came from Edinburgh.
E. I understand she was cook at the Edinburgh school. [No evidence found.]
G. Where do you think this Lord Burghley fits in then. Was he Robert's father?
E. I don't know what Robert's father's name was.
G. Do you remember any letters coming to the family from England?
E. Only from Annie.
G. Annie's father was Albert, is that right?
E. I don't know. He (the father) had a son called Albert I know. [William had a son called Herbert?]
G. In other words, Annie's brother was called Albert.
E. He might have been too. I thought it was Bill. [Correct. Annie's father was William aka Bill].
(VERY CONFUSING, NOT CLEAR).
G. Who was born at Sellicks?
E. Only Lucy.
G. Lord Burghley. Any comments?
E. I know he had a second family. I don't know how many children.
G. Did Robert marry only once, or twice?
E. Only the once. [Correct. To Lucy Dore.]
G. About what year did Annie make her claim? [No evidence to support this claim.]
E. We don't know. Horrie heard - he told us.
G. Annie went a bit silly later in life.
E. Yes. When she came over here, she just dwelt on Dad. She never worked much at all.
G. Have you ever heard of a Manor House in England?
E. No.
G. Do you remember where the graves are in West Terrace Cemetery?
E. No. Not really. I believe they built on Mum's grave.
G. Your father (Joseph) died after he came home from his evening walk.
E. Yes. He had been over to Besses and he had said it was cold. We had been to see a wedding. He was a bit worn out. He had had a bit of a cold before. Anyway, when he got home, he wound the clock up, went to the toilet, came back, sat on the side of the bed and fell dead to the floor. [Joseph Smith died in Leicester Street, Parkside in 1934].
G. You used to live in Leicester Street.
E. Yes. Number 153 down the end,
END.
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